Well, I knew it had to happen. Private emails flooded my in box all preaching about the pluses of? You guessed it! The AK 47, the AR 15, and the various Mosin Nagant’s.
I suppose I should address these one by one. I don’t have any problem at all with any of them as weapons go. Just not for a survival situation in what is now America.
The Ak 47 is one tough and reliable weapon in whatever configuration that has been produced. In the United States we have pretty easy access to the semi-auto versions, and that is what I will be considering here. It shoots a round that is slightly less powerful than the 30/30 and will certainly fill the bill when venison is on the menu. For personal protection it is a world class performer. It has been said that you could drag an AK through mud, then across a desert, dump it into the ocean and swim a marathon dragging it behind you. Crawl to shore amidst all that swirling sand, stand up, cock it, and pull the trigger, and it will fire without fail. That’s saying a lot, and I have no reason to doubt the stories of AK reliability. Now though? tell me where, in America, you can find a reliable source of ammunition that in on a scale of, say, 30/06. Especially if all hell has broken loose, and Joe Blow’s Gun Emporium is no longer in existence..? If you can stock up on ammo and components, then more power to you.
Next we have the AR 15. They are great pop guns, and are useful across a wide variety of small game, up to deer size game with very careful shot placement. That said; the AR needs a lot of tender love and care. Try anything that was said above about the AK, and it will not fire in all probability. They are finicky about hygiene, and are notorious for not stopping bad guys without multiple hits. Could an AR 15 have a place in the arsenal of a survivalist? Certainly! I see it as a camp gun that could be an expedient weapon for defense. As noted above, the same things go for ammunition, plus add a lot of cleaning supplies.
Mosin Nagant rifles are just not all that common here in the United States, and most of what is here are junk. Unless you do a lot of work on them. I am told by others that the ones found in Europe, especially the Finnish re-works are fabulous. Tough, reliable, and extremely accurate. if you can get one of those, along with ammunition and components to build more ammo? Then by all means get one. If, however, you are simply determined to have a European rifle then go to Mitchell’s Mauser’s and take a look. The 8mm has a long history of being a very reliable performer.
Tags: AK 47, AR 15, editorial, Mitchell's Mausers, Mosin Nagant, news, opinion, survival, survivalist
November 16, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Interview Request
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I hope you are fine and carrying on the great work you have been doing for the Internet surfers. I am Ghazala Khan from The Pakistani Spectator (TPS), We at TPS throw a candid look on everything happening in and for Pakistan in the world. We are trying to contribute our humble share in the webosphere. Our aim is to foster peace, progress and harmony with passion.
We at TPS are carrying out a new series of interviews with the notable passionate bloggers, writers, and webmasters. In that regard, we would like to interview you, if you don’t mind. Please send us your approval for your interview at my email address “ghazala.khi at gmail.com”, so that I could send you the Interview questions. We would be extremely grateful.
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Ghazala Khan
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November 19, 2008 at 9:21 am
You have got to be kidding.
November 25, 2008 at 3:24 pm
As you said,the various AK variants are extremely reliable but the exact same “sloppy” tolerances that make it so reliable do not contribute to accuracy. While they excel in being able to lay down a lot of firepower as witnessed by the famous Ca bank robbery(even though their guns were illegally converted to fullauto),In my humble opinion,they are too inaccurate to use for most survival purposes except maybe if you are charged by a whole gang of “bad guys” in mass formation which almost NEVER happens except in movies. While the AR platform has VASTLY improved over the years,and you can now get any caliber upper/conversion from the lowly .22LR all the way up to .50BMG,usasuvivor IS correct in that you HAVE to mantain them properly. Naturally this isn’t NOWHERE NEAR the issue that it used to be when the US government used our boys as a testbed for new rifles in the early vietnam era (and used dirty ball powder and NON chrome lined barrels/chambers),contrary to Eugene Stoner’s design specifications. Todays ARs have evolved into decent rifles BUT unless you choose the new 6.8 spc or 6.5 grenell round,you’ve still basically got a glorified groundhog,coyote,or prarie dog rifle. My personal view on using these rifles in combat is to sit somebody down with a bushel basket full of loaded magazines and tell them to just keep shooting to keep the “bad guys’ heads down until you can slip off to bust them with a REAL high powered rifle. Another thing you MUST watch out for is the cheap imported steel cased ammo. This ammo has lacquer coating on outside of the cases so that the steel case won’t rust. It’s not a problem for an occasional plinker or hunting rifle,but when the rifle is fired enough to make chamber warm,the lacquer coating melts. Once this coating melts in chamber,it quickly builds up and if left there,will harden and become VERY hard to remove-thus making said rifle useless until thoroughly cleaned. This warning on steel cased ammo also applies on AK and sks ammo as well. Another option is the old .30 M1 carbine. At reasonably close ranges with the right bullet selection,it’s plenty of firepower,very light to carry/use,and very manuverable,while being highly reliable and offering improved accuracy with light recoil over most AK variants. Another thing to consider is with enough accuracy,the rifle is MUCH MORE practical for survival hunting AND single shots are extremely hard to locate when other parties are trying to track down with their unwanted attention.
Now that close range semiauto rifles are covered,we move on to longer range rifles. While I would LOVE to have a highly tuned/accurized M1A (always wanted 1),and while it would be practical with proper bullet selection for almost any situation,the rifle is heavy and cumbersome as is the loaded mags if you attempt to carry several. I would shy away from surplus mausers,mosin nagants,and others for the simple reasons of ammo availability and almost all commerical bolt action rifles will prove to be more accurate (that word again). In today’s shooting/hunting market,there are several economic rifles that will perform just about as well as higher priced finer rifles. THE rifle to stay away from is the junk remington model 710/770 rifles. Among the good economic rifles are marlin modelmr7,savage/stevens model 200, remington model 700 ADL/sps,and even the mossberg ATR.
These rifles will fulfill all hunting and survival purposes in skilled hands. Whichever rifle you choose should be topped with a good rugged scope and mounts. I reccomend a good fixed power scope of about 4x because if you can’t see good enough to be able to hit a deer/man size target,you’re too far away in the 1st place. A spare scope in rings already sighted in will serve as a quickly changed out spare in case something happens with scope already mounted the rifle won’t be useless. Usasuvivor is also correct in that such a rifle should be chambered for the .308 (7.62×51mm) or the old 30-06 which is a true do everything,jack of all trades cartridge. Simply change bullet weight/construction to have a different purpose rifle.
The remington 870 is THE shotgun to have in ANY situation you’ll encounter in defense/hunting/survival conditions. Not only is it the most reliable widespread pump shotgun on the market,after market accs/barrels,and stocks are available by the ton. Of course the 12 gauge with 3″ chamber is the best allround choice for anything and everything you’re going to use a shotgun on.
February 7, 2009 at 9:00 am
I am not sure what part of the United State you reside, but your information on the Mosin Nagant seems a bit inaccurate. I live in the intermountain west region and Mosin Nagants are very common, as far as condition goes, you will most likely find them in arsenal refinish condition(restored bluing,etc) and though I agree that the Finnish models are far superior, I do not see anything wrong with the Russian models. I am curious if you have ever fired one, as you seem a bit biased against them. As far as Mausers are concerned, I am quite fond of them, but the 8mm civilian rounds are quite underpowered here in the US and are rather weak in comparison to the 7.62×54
February 8, 2009 at 9:49 am
Howard; I’m also in the west, and the Mosin’s that I have seen were generally in poor, to very poor condition. In the stores at least. Now, could they be cleaned up? Most likely so. They all appear to be milsurp rifles that were stuffed away in a warehouse and just forgotten about.
I don’t have any opinion about them Howard, after all I’ve only shot three Mosin’s. All three were accurate as all hell. The bolts were stiff and grainy, the triggers just plain sucked. Nothing that a little elbow grease and some polishing compound couldn’t fix though. So I am thinking that with a little work these rifles could be really good shooters.
Perhaps my biggest problem with the 7.62X54 is the lack of availability here in the U.S. In the Denver area the only place that ammunition could be found was at Prairie Arms and it was pretty expensive. Granted, that was a couple of years ago and with Mosins going for around a hundred a piece the market may have improved to the point that ammunition is costing less as well as being more widely available.
Still, the theme on this blog is last ditch survival. In light of that, I still cannot recommend any caliber that is not available just about anywhere.
February 19, 2009 at 11:11 am
Howard you are right, I have a Mosin carbine, I LOVE IT. I had a .270 before and this gun outperforms it in about every way. With open sights i can hit red from 100 yards anyday. And I do somewhat agree with the condition you find them, but its luck of the draw. I got a really nice one with no rust and very few wood flaws. This gun is a keeper for sure, while ammo is expensive, its very powerful and plus you could beat someone to death with it when you run out. When i was hunting I got 3 shots off at a running deer about 75 yards away before the guy i was with could get him into his scope, and I GOT HIM. I love the gun but you have to be choosy, my cousin just got one too and his is in much worse shape than mine plus no bayonette.
Thats my opinion.
February 19, 2009 at 11:13 am
BTW I used soft point ammo on that deer…..
Blew a 8″ diameter exit wound in the side of the deer. The entire liver and some entrails came out the other side.
July 23, 2009 at 6:16 pm
its july now and i must say that since the ammo supply in america has mysteriously vanished i am glad i have my A++++ condition m44 mosin nagant… i bought it for about 100 dollars JUST FOR THE REASON that out of all surplus ammo 7.62×54r is the most plentiful and cheap as dirt ammo i have ever used. and to be perfectly honest russian silver tip (steel core AP) is suprisingly accurate, can punch a hole through railroad spike plates and i get 440 rounds for about 110 dollars after shipping. the downfall to the mosin nagant is the rate of fire, the muzzle flash at night (seriously its massive) and the sticky bolt that occurs when the first person to use it after a cosmoline dip dosnt clean it good enough. (causes cosmoline to melt and embed in the chamber walls turning it into what seems almost like glue when you try to cycle the bolt… its an easy fix though)
as far as an ak is concerned, the only plus it has over the mosin is rate of fire… i know there are die hard AK fans out there but when push comes to shove in an “american survival” situation how long can you survive when you got the least accurate out of the three arms listed in this thread? if you get out of the city and you like to eat meat you will most likely scare away your game if you cant get close enough to actually hit it without spoiling the meat. (not trying to offend you joeman i am proud you bagged a deer but you know its not good in a survival situation to rupture endtrails, i know you will get that sweet sweet heart shot soon)
now my opinion of the AR… fun to shoot and the big perk is that you can fit the caliber of round you shoot to your liking being you have the spare parts to do so… cleaning is a bitch… jamming occurs more than i would like. also, i have heard that the smaller rounds (under 30 cal.) shot out of an AR or M16 tends to tumble after entering the target. in vietnam they called the rounds tomahawks because the way they cut through unarmored flesh. but dont take my word for it, i dont have a slow-motion camera or a vietcong to shoot. it might not drop your game on the spot but your game will drop eventualy. and at least you know you can get a good shot in at 150-250 yards. after that its all up to the caliber your shooting.
all in all, me personally, i prefer the reach of the mosin nagants despite the slow rate of fire. the cost of the ammo plus the fact its easy to get.
yeah the ammo is corrosive but if you are trying to survive why arnt you cleaning your lifeline? plus when you go to the range for some practice everyone wants to know who is making the biggest bang.